subfloor thickness for shower pan

subfloor thickness for shower pan

Based on the comments to this answer, updated answer: Since you're waterproofing the entire room, its not essential. Waterproofing strip: Schluter-KERDI-BAND, 5. His hobbies include horses, motorcycles, road racing and sport fishing. His has been published online through GTV Magazine, Home Anatomy, TravBuddy, MMO Hub, Killer Guides and the Delegate2 group. Uncoupling and waterproofing membrane: Schluter-DITRA, 4. In the mixing tray, mix the mortar with water, using a garden hoe. Whatever the product, the liner must extend at least 2 in. This is normal. We gather the best information, organize it, and make it available to you according to the current stage of your remodeling project. In most cases, the job is easier with the help of an assistant. Increasing subfloor thickness under new shower pan, New blog post from our CEO Prashanth: Community is the future of AI, Improving the copy in the close modal and post notices - 2023 edition. in the area of concern. Subfloors provide the necessary support for the shower pan and prevent any shifting, settling, or warping in the future. I ripped my old shower down to the studs and joists. The hyperbolic space is a conformally compact Einstein manifold. It's about how it looks and how it feels underfoot. A standard material used for a subfloor is going to be a cut to size plywood, mainly due to its availability. Which one to choose? Prefabricated shower tray: Schluter-KERDI-SHOWER-T/-TS/-TT, 3. DITRA has a nominal 1/8" (3 mm)-thickness which minimizes tile assembly thickness. Do I need to apply a waterproofer such as Redgard to the subfloor ply before I apply the thinset to set the Kerdi shower pan? Tiling Project Guide. Mix and place the first mortar layer. A minor leak may only be discovered after the nearby walls or floor below are heavily damaged (code is not concerned with a visible escape of water pouring out onto your bathroom floor, but rather a sneaky invisible leak). You can also use a membrane system, which come in a variety of formats and are either self-adhering or meant to be installed with thinset mortar over the top of the concrete slab. The system can also be customized with floor heating cables to create a warm, luxurious tile floor. Which language's style guidelines should be used when writing code that is supposed to be called from another language? Use either Quikrete Floor Mud or Quikrete Sand/Topping Mix for the job. Mark the top of the coat hanger and withdraw it. Sign up to our newsletter and get exclusive deals you wont find anywhere else straight to your inbox! The liner itself must be recessed into its backing so as not to occupy the space required for the wall covering. In other words, the face of the liner should be flush with the face of the studs so the wall covering can be installed flat to the wall. After the drain is set into the shower floor, measure the height from the subfloor to the top edge of the drain, deducting the thickness of the mortar bond coat and tile being installed. Different options and thicknesses of DITRA membrane are available to best suit the needs of your project. In order to add support and reinforce the subfloor structure, you can add a secondary layer that the built up shower pan will sit on top of. All trays feature integrated KERDI waterproofing and are available in several sizes to fit a variety of shower configurations. Wearing waterproof gloves, dump the mixed mortar onto the shower floor. Layers of a shower pan. 3 Shower-Pan Choices for a Solid Tile Floor Installation, Video Series: Tile a Barrier-Free Bathroom. When an inspector shows up to do the rough-plumbing inspection and sees a two-part drain in place, it triggers a future inspection that not every house receives: a shower-liner inspection, detailed in section P2503.6 of the IRc. This means that you will have a steeper slope on the walls closer to the drain. Use only a little bit of water at a time to maintain a stiff, peanut butter-like consistency. Note: While the image below shows a concrete subfloor, this is also achievable with a wood subfloor. Alternatively, add small amounts of mortar to fill the low spot and repeat the process. Premanufactured kit showers may be installed without worry. Kerdi shower pan in a shower with 2 drains, How do I deal with 3" subfloor overhang and extreme joist notch, Medium term repair for cracked shower pan. Further, DITRA performs all these functions while still providing adequate support/load distribution for the tile covering. However, if you are building a second story walk-in shower that is larger than 4 feet square, you should contact a structural engineer to make sure the second-story joists can handle the weight of the add-on and what shoring (if any) needs to be done. If you are worried about it and need to use 1/2" sheathing for other reasons then just install 2x blocking perpendicular to the joist at a shorter distance on center, say 8"-12" O.C. This may require the services of a qualified design professional (e.g., architect, engineer, etc.). There are no special qualifications necessary to observe a wet floor, so the inspector should have little to do other than nod at a full pan and a dry floor. Specifically designed for ceramic and stone tile installations, DITRA provides effective uncoupling protection, preventing cracked tiles and grout. The only time you won't need a pan is if you have a fully tiled wet room space without a shower enclosure. If the subfloor is completely flat and level, proceed to step 3. 1. When choosing your subfloor material, take into consideration how the thickness will effect the overall heigh of the built up shower pan in relation to your shower curb. They can easily be cut to size with a utility knife, or may be extended with dry-pack mortar. Free Tile and Stone Installation Guidelines, Why is the Wood Grain Finish on my Glazed Porcelain Tile Coming, Tile Installer Thin-set Standards (ITS) Verification Course. While the KERDI membrane is used in the image above, note that KERDI-BOARD multifunctional building panels are also suitable. Contact us: 888-472-4588 In 35 years, he's gained expertise in all phases of residential construction, retrofit and remodeling. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Fasten it down with roofing nails or staples. The modal window is a 'site map' of the most critical areas of the site. Send us an email: , Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp, 1. The drain must be sealed so the pan can be filled with water to a depth of at least 2 in., measured at the threshold. Johnathan C. Brewer II is a licensed general contractor specializing in kitchen, bath remodels, and general constructionwith two decades of professional experience. 9mm . above the finished threshold. 1 Answer Sorted by: 2 1/2" is a bit thin to span that distance, although it should not be a problem with a concrete slab above it. Hold the 1-by-4 rod on edge against the surface of the subfloor and move it across the surface of the mortar in a sawing motion. Waterproofing corners Schluter-KERDI-KERECK, 1. Once it dries, it creates a waterproof barrier over which you can install the tile. Though you can make your own shower pan, our experts say this project is best left to professionals and experienced tile setters. If it comes apart, repeat the process. Is it safe to publish research papers in cooperation with Russian academics? Built in place from various parts and pieces, site-built shower pans allow for an endless variety of shower-floor arrangements, including curbless, roll-in showers. Resting above the waterproof membrane is a second bed of mortar that generally follows the same contours as the preslope. How to Install a Shower or Tub Faucet. Donato is the founder of CTaSC. A forum community dedicated to Do it yourself-ers and home improvement enthusiasts. If the shower pan is done properly, I shouldn't expect water to get into the subfloor. otherwise I'd be in big trouble (even if it was treated). With the utility knife, create slits for the four bolts on the shower drain to protrude upward. The classically-inspired KERDI-DRAIN is offered in a variety of grate finishes and accommodates a wide range of tile thicknesses. There is no difference between a shower tray and a shower pan. If your shower is not a square, and they rarely are, you still need to have the same thickness at the walls all the way around the perimeter. The first step in a site-built shower pan installation and the first signal to the inspector of whats to comeis the two-part drain assembly. One side will be resting on a wall, the other side the joists will be hung using strong-ties or the like. Ask an assistant to help position the shower base or pan in place, with the hole for the drain centered over the drainpipe or hole in the subfloor. Made of polyethylene, DITRA also serves as a waterproofing layer that protects moisture-sensitive substrates, such as plywood/OSB. Become a member and get unlimited site access, including the Free-space on the underside of the matting provides a route for excess moisture and vapor to prevent damage to the tile layer above. Would you ever say "eat pig" instead of "eat pork"? Building a custom DIY shower pan from tile in a mortar bed can help you create the perfect floor for your shower that's both beautiful and waterproof. Install the plywood or cement board on the subfloor using nails or screws. Get your 2 x 4 (which is actually 3 1/2 x 1 1/2 - economy I guess) and set it on top of your drain (Figure 1). Prepare the Subfloor. 2 and 3 outlets are available making it simple to connect to standard plumbing. The layers will create a slope toward the drain while keeping the surrounding materials waterproofed. 2) The pre-slope under the pan liner channels any water that gets through the tile and grout into the weep holes in the drain assembly. The curb is the open entry point where the user enters the shower. Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox. I plan to use blocking, and I suppose I could put 2 pieces of blocking between each joist. Is there any way to alleviate the movement from the hangers? When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Market Research for Exporting to the U.S. Catalina 2021 Ceramic and Stone Tile Market Report, Kitchen and Bath Cabinets Countertops Reports. Various sizes are available to accommodate both center drain and perimeter drain placement. Waterproofing strip: Schluter-KERDI-BAND, 6. With the liner installed and visible, the next step is the leak test. Bring all of these elements together using the profiles and fasteners specifically designed for KERDI-BOARD assemblies. per ft. toward weep holes in the subdrain. Cut the piece to length with a handsaw. Designed to accommodate the KERDI-DRAIN point drain, the KERDI-SHOWER-T/-TS/-TT shower tray can be installed over a recessed subfloor to create an even transition from the floor tile right into the shower. Actually will be basically a fully tiled wet room. With the rest of the shower drain temporarily in place, draw a pencil or chalk line around the perimeter of the walls to add a reference line, which represents the top of the tile. This is especially true when remodeling at an existing subfloor. Use the scrap piece of two-by-four and level to continually check the tapered slope. Spread grout across the surface of the tile with the rubber tile float. I think The Evil Greebo does bring up a good point, because this is a steam shower I would be even more concerned about mold developing in this humid environment. Thus, additional measures must be taken to protect wall cavities from water and vapor penetration. This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google. Seems like 2-3 inches. If working with a wood subfloor, you can build up the rest of the subfloor by installing either a 5/8" or 3/4" plywood/OSB panel on top of the wood subfloor along with DITRA or another Schluter-Systems uncoupling membrane. What is the difference between a shower tray and a shower pan? If the subfloor is not flat and level, apply a self-leveling compound following the . A secondary drain, mounted on the waterproof pan under the showers finished floor, drains this water away. Actually will be basically a fully tiled wet room. Not out of concern for spilled water but because it's a steam shower, so your overall bathroom is going to become a playground for mold. The first layer of deck mud does not have to be precise; it merely needs to provide enough slope from the outside edges of the shower to the actual drain for the pan liner to slope to. Pressing the Escape (ESC) button will close the modal and bring you back to where you were on the page. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. I think our shower tile guy made this base too thick. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Hammer down any protruding nails used to fasten the subfloor to the floor joists below. Test fit shower pan drain housing into subfloor bore hole. Is it safe to publish research papers in cooperation with Russian academics? A surprise to many, this means the blocking and studs may need to be shaved down by the thickness of the liner material to accommodate it. joists where the wall studs are offset from 2 of 3 joists? While the detail images below demonstrate options for KERDI-DRAIN, please note that raising the bathroom floor is also possible with KERDI-LINE. Uncoupling and waterproofing membrane: Schluter-DITRA. Make sure the shower pan is aligned . DITRA-HEAT-DUO features an integrated bonding fleece that provides sound control, as well as a thermal break. But a shower pan isn't just about function. Code requires that lining materials in field-built shower pans slope 1/4 in. Rip the siding to 3-1/2 inches and screw it to the backside of the blocks for curved curbs. . Cut and lay down the tar paper on the floor of the shower. Overlap the edges and roll them tightly. DITRA performs all these functions while still providing adequate support/load distribution for the tile covering. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. One popular way to create a shower pan is to install a pre-fabricated polyurethane or fiberglass pan. One side will be resting on a wall, the other side the joists will be hung. Free-space on the underside of the matting provides a route for excess moisture and vapor to prevent damage to the tile layer above. 2. DITRA has a nominal 1/8" (3 mm)-thickness which minimizes tile assembly thickness. Upstairs shower pan on floor that bounces slightly. You can also use the two-by-four as a screed to smooth down the mortar. in the area of concern. Donato Pompo, CTC CMR CSI CDT MBA, is the leading tile and stone forensic expert and consultant in North America, and he is a National Tile Contractors Association Recognized Consultant. Premanufactured kits do not weigh enough to be of concern, so you can go directly over the existing subfloor (plywood or OSB). 1. Remove any residual mortar by hand or with the trowel. 3. Otherwise, you must install sister joints before . Its strong. * Recessing the floor of a shower must be done in a way that preserves the structural integrity and safety of the construction. I plan on replacing some studs and sistering others. Ideally you would need to cut single, large pieces and screw them into the running boards or concrete slab. Litigation and Insurance Claims Investigation Services. A major perk of site-built shower pans is that they allow the installation of custom tile, stone, or other aggregate floor surfaces. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Multifunctional building panels: Schluter-KERDI-BOARD, 2. Become a member and get instant access to thousands of videos, how-tos, tool reviews, and design features. Place a full sheet of plywood onto the joists with the 48-inch end against the edge of the cutout where a floor joist runs below the edge. See Recessing the Shower Floor Technical detail here. You should end up with material leading to the edge of your framed walls and shower curb. Install the liner over a pre-sloped bed, as I explain here. What is the final thickness of a DIY shower pan? The preslope is laid on tar paper. Uncoupling membrane for DITRA-HEAT-E-HK electric floor heating cables, Uncoupling membrane with integrated sound control and thermal break. If you are worried about it and need to use 1/2" sheathing for other reasons then just install 2x blocking perpendicular to the joist at a shorter distance on center, say 8"-12" O.C. Sign up for eletters today and get the latest how-to from Fine Homebuilding, plus special offers. Learn more about the essentials of waterproofing. 4. Once the moisture barrier is in place, a layer of wire mesh or chicken wire is put down and stapled to the subfloor. What is this brick with a round back and a stud on the side used for? What is scrcpy OTG mode and how does it work? But you did not actually answer his question. William Machin began work in construction at the age of 15, while still in high school. A recessed shower floor allows for the installation of a sloped mortar bed or a prefabricated shower tray that is flush with the rest of the bathroom floor. Lee has over two decades of hands-on experience remodeling, fixing, and improving homes, and has been providing home improvement advice for over 13 years. Top-quality cast iron shower pans are very costly yet also very durable and can last for decades. The issue is that the previous subfloor was 1/2" ply over joists 17 1/2" OC - by my research, not enough support. Because they act as dams that can raise water level in the shower area, the top of an included curb becomes the benchmark for the height of waterproofing. If the liner doesnt leak for the 15-minute duration of the test, it passes. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. It is important to remember, if you choose a cement backer board, you will need to use the manufacturer recommended backer board screws. in reply: 1) Lawrence Taylor - The subfloor is the first layer of plywood over the joists, which I lowerd about 1 1/2 inches by removing 2-by material that was put over these joints by the last guy who remodeled this bathroom. Spread out thinset with the notched trowel and press the tile into the thinset. What risks are you taking when "signing in with Google"? Where theres no curb at the threshold, as in a curbless design, a temporary curb must be constructed for the leak test. Install the liner over the preslope & wrapping the curb, extending a minimum of 6" up the wall. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. What were the most popular text editors for MS-DOS in the 1980s? When choosing your subfloor material, take into consideration how the thickness will effect the overall heigh of the built up shower pan in relation to your shower curb. Oatey's shower pan liners are offered with either CPE (CPE pan liners are recommended if your floor has a radiant heat system) or PVC sheet material at 30 mil. >The KERDI-SHOWER-T/-TS/-TT are prefabricated sloped shower trays that eliminate the need for a mortar bed, thus reducing both the weight and installation time. Apply some mixed mortar at the marked area of a low spot on the subfloor. A subfloor is the layer at the very bottom of your shower pan. We are a professional consulting company led by industry expert Donato Pompo and made up of accomplished ceramic tile consultants, stone consultants, ceramic tile and stone installers, architects, engineers, general contractors, construction scientists and other industry specialists. Does the 500-table limit still apply to the latest version of Cassandra? The KERDI-SHOWER-LT accommodates the KERDI-LINE drain at intermediate locations and is also offered in a selection of sizes with thicknesses ranging from 1-1/4" (32 mm) to 1-7/16 (36 mm). Make sure the surface is at a level. Lay the waterproofing material on the floor of the shower, running it about five inches up each of the walls. After 5 minutes, try to separate the seam. KERDI-LINE is an elegant, low profile linear floor drain specifically designed for bonded waterproofing assemblies. They might begin to flex a bit, which may need a fix. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. The code offers a number of choices for this application, from the time-tested but relatively outdated use of lead sheets and hot-mopped layers of asphalt felt to the common plastic liners used today. Alternatively, you can choose to install a cement backer board as your subfloor or as an addition for support and structure. What should I follow, if two altimeters show different altitudes? For curbless showers without such a dam, the floor-level threshold at the opening serves the same purpose. Which was the first Sci-Fi story to predict obnoxious "robo calls"? The primary objective is to support the weight of the built up shower pan and provide a durable subfloor in the event of the natural processes of home settling and seismic movements. Use a reciprocating saw to cut the wood, and pull out any nails securing the material with a hammer or pry bar. Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! Whatever the drains shape and location, the sloped subbase is critical to moving bulk water from the shower floor, and the sneaky water that gets through it, toward the drain. KERDI is specifically designed as a waterproofing membrane to be used in conjunction with ceramic and stone tile coverings. Why did US v. Assange skip the court of appeal? With lengths from 20" to 72" (50 cm to 180 cm) in 4" (10 cm) increments, KERDI-LINE can fit virtually any shower design. I removed these and droped the 3/4 OSB subfloor only in the shower area. After you have put down a double layer of plywood to provide the base for a custom walk-in shower pan, you need to cover the subfloor with a layer of tar paper, in this case referred to as a vapor barrier or a moisture barrier. With KERDI-BOARD, you can build custom vanities, shelving units, bathtub surrounds, free-standing partition walls, kitchen islands, and so much more. For hardwood finish flooring, which average about 3/8-inch to 3/4-inch in thickness, 1/2-inch to 3/4-inch-thick plywood is the preferred subfloor, though there are a variety of . While the 1955 code permitted site-built pans only in special cases where the installation of a premade pan was demonstrably impractical, such pans are now common and have their own provision in section P2709 of the IRc. DITRA is specifically designed for ceramic and stone tile installations. Although curbless showers that were originally meant for handicap showers has become more popular and more in demand. I used an unbonded mortar bed, so I have a tar paper slip sheet on the subfloor with wire mesh stapled to the top of it. We benefit by helping you find what your looking for and are paid a small amount when a purchase is made on a sellers website we link out to. The KERDI-SHOWER-T is offered in five sizes with perimeter heights ranging from 1-3/32" (28 mm) to 1-1/4" (32 mm). This doubles as an anti-fracture membrane which is painted onto the surface of the concrete with a paintbrush or a paint roller. Where you have obstructions such as pipes, use one-by-six lumber or use a router to create a groove to accommodate the obstruction. Toe-screw 24 blocks to the subfloor every 12 inches and 1/2 inch away from the line to allow for the thickness of the hardboard siding. The system can also be customized with floor heating cables to create a warm, luxurious tile floor. While the latter do not require any special considerations since the panels and pan are installed straight on top of the subfloor and drywall, custom-build walk-in showers require physically challenging preparatory steps in order to get the floor ready for the shower itself. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Fold the corners into place; do not cut the corner material. Align the longer edge of the sheet at one side of the . 399K views 1 year ago Dry Pack mortar or Deck Mud, as it is called in California, is an important step in the construction of a tile shower pan. Should I use liquid water proofing membrane over a standard shower mud pan? Specifically designed for ceramic and stone tile installations, the family of DITRA products provides effective uncoupling protection, preventing cracked tiles and grout. A fully waterproof assembly is easily achieved by sealing seams and fastener penetrations with KERDI-BAND. Get complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine. There are many resources available regarding the techniques and skills required to assemble a quality site-built shower pan, but they often fall short in explaining the details required by modern plumbing standards. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. DITRA-XL is 5/16 (7 mm)-thick and allows for ceramic tile application over single layer plywood/OSB subfloors on joists spaced at 24 (610 mm) o.c. Acrylic shower pans are the least expensive type of pan and can last for about 10 years before there could be a crack or leak. The lower area of the shower walls should be open, with no cement boards in place yet. Point drain with integrated bonding flange. The question of whether the code requires a similar liner over shower seats often comes up, but the IRC offers no guidance here. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. The KERDI-SHOWER-LTS is a prefabricated shower tray designed to accommodate the KERDI-LINE linear drain along the perimeter of the shower. Build a high border around the perimeter of the shower, about 1/4-inch below the tile top perimeter line. This slope is later refined with a second bed of mortar. If you're planning to install a shower base or manufactured shower pan on a subfloor, it's necessary to make sure the pan will be level and stable. A piece of plywood can be purchased in 1/2 or 3/4 thickness, and most cement backer boards will be 1/4, 1/2, or 5/8 thick. Seal the shower liner to the shower drain. tar command with and without --absolute-names option. Mix it thoroughly with the trowel to remove any clumps. Shower pan membrane typically comes in thicknesses from 30 mil (0. How to Replace Shower Pans in Fiberglass Showers, How to Convert a Tub-Shower Enclosure to a Freestanding Shower, Life of an Architect: How to Build a Shower That Won't Leak, Today's Homeowner: Installing Tile Over a Wood Subfloor, The Floor Elf: How to Create a Shower Floor, Houzz.com: Doorless Showers Open a World of Possibilities, How to clean a showerhead, according to an expert. All shower trays feature integrated KERDI waterproofing and are designed specifically to integrate with the KERDI-DRAIN. Did the Golden Gate Bridge 'flatten' under the weight of 300,000 people in 1987? But remember, the code is a minimum standard and not a measure of fine home building. And if the pan isnt properly sloped to carry water to the drain, water standing in the pan can become a petri dish of bacteria and possibly a slipping hazard. Made of soft polyethylene and featuring an anchoring fleece on both sides, KERDI is easily anchored to the substrate using thin-set mortar. This top mortar layer must be very smooth, so take your time with it. The combination of these four essential functions allows for the successful installation of tile over a wide range of substrates, including plywood/ OSB, concrete, gypsum, heated floors, etc. Waterproofing strip: Schluter-KERDI-BAND, 6. Use tape and plastic to cover up the shower drain so that the mortar and other debris will not clog it. Long showers, slow drains, or minor cracks or shrinkage in the grout can allow some water to sneak through the shower floors surface. Form the shower pan box frame with blocking between the studs. Allow the mortar to cure overnight and proceed to the next step. Place a 3-foot level on the floor facing from right to left, and again facing from front to back at the area of the pan. No I would not apply water proofer to the subfloor under the shower pan (unless we are going to be waterproofing the entire floor it might be easier to just continue it under the shower pan). Install the shower wall tile backer board and place the top mortar bed. Use tile spacers to maintain proper distance between tiles. Counting and finding real solutions of an equation. Follow the Wood Underlayment installation guidelines as found in the Schluter-DITRA or Schluter-DITRA-HEAT Installation Handbooks for fastening guidelines.

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